An interview with Trevor Rabin: The new album 'Rio,' working with Yes and more

photo: Hristo Shindov

Trevor Rabin was a creative force behind the ‘80s career resurgence of Yes. After he joined the band, they made 90125, a more modern-sounding album based on Rabin’s demos that were originally earmarked for a solo project.

Released 40 years ago this month, 90125 reached the Top 5, went triple platinum and spawned the Billboard pop and rock radio chart topper “Owner of a Lonely Heart” (that is Rabin’s iconic guitar intro), plus the hits “It Can Happen” and “Leave It.” The South African singer/guitarist also enjoyed major success with Yes on 1987’s Big Generator (featuring AOR mainstays “Rhythm of Love,” “Love Will Find a Way”).

Following two more solid studio efforts with the group, Rabin sought a new path. He left to work as a film soundtrack composer, notably on a succession of high-profile titles produced by Jerry Bruckheimer (“Armageddon,” “Con Air,” “Gone in 60 Seconds,” “Enemy of the State,” “Remember the Titans,” “National Treasure”), as well as other movies and television shows.

Rabin’s studio session guitar, bass playing or backing vocals have been heard on albums by Tina Turner, Michael Jackson, Paul Rodgers, Seal, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Roger Hodgson, and Carly Rae Jepsen (Rabin’s son Ryan, formerly of Grouplove, co-wrote and produced a track on 2022’s The Loneliest Time).

Now the Rock and Roll Hall of Famer has unveiled his adventurous studio album Rio, which encompasses hard rock, pop, bluegrass, world music and more. Rock Cellar recently caught up with the musician at home in Los Angeles. The engaging conversation has been lightly edited for clarity.

Q: The last time you put out a proper rock album was 1989’s Can’t Look Away. How do you think longtime fans will react to the new one, Rio?

A: I’m very curious, because [Rio] goes through a lot of different styles. It was almost like being on vacation and visiting different places. I hadn’t done a rock and roll vocal album for decades, so it was really enjoyable for me. The good news was it felt very fresh - almost like doing your first album after having tons more experience than you had before you did your first album.  

Q: Your followers have raved online about the singles released so for, especially on the effusive standout “Big Mistakes.”  

A: My wife tells me that there’s 99 percent good vibes. I said, ‘I really need to hear the bad vibes, so I can correct or learn from them.

Q: What prompted you to finally make another rock album with vocals and handle most of the instruments? Did you have a lot of downtime during the pandemic which kicked everything into gear?

A: That was a small part of it. Vinnie Colaiuta - one of the most ridiculously [talented] drummers on Earth - played on “Push.” We couldn’t get together, so we did it virtually.

Back when I first got into film [music], I thought I’d do four or five of them and then get back to doing an album. Just having some variation. Now here we are, 30-odd years later and 50 films later and I'm doing an album. I really got to the point, where I thought, ‘If I don't do it now, I'll be dead. I better move!’  

Q: Your granddaughter was the inspiration for the Rio album title. Can you elaborate?

A: Yeah. It's funny. I played in Rio in 1985 with Yes. It was the biggest audience Yes ever had - 500,000 people there. I’d never seen anything like it. To play there was just surreal. The next night was Queen on this Rock in Rio festival. All the bands were staying at the same hotel, and I remember saying to Freddie [Mercury] and Brian [May], ‘I’m going to watch you tomorrow, but I’m not coming to the show’ because we were playing again three nights later. I said, ‘I’m definitely going to be watching on TV. Good luck and everything.’ We watched them and that night my son Ryan was conceived. When his child was born, he called her Rio…when I tell people the story, if my son’s in the room, he’ll say, ‘Don’t say that, it's disgusting!’

Q: You designed the album cover art on computer. What is the background behind it?

A: It’s sort of a collage. I've been painting for years. I usually do it with oil, and add acrylic to oil, which I find really cool. Then, I realized when new programs came out that I don't have to wash my hands every 10 minutes. I don't have to clean the carpet. I started getting into that. When I was talking about the cover with the head of the record company [Inside Out Music], I sent him four or five of my pieces. He said, ‘How do you feel about doing the album cover like this?’ I said, ‘It’s fine, as long as if in a week’s time you don’t like it, I'm happy to fire the artist. It’s got to be right.’ I don't have an ego toward it.

Q: Among the various Rio formats is a Blu-ray edition with a 5.1 mix. Knowing you’re a sonic architect in the studio, I’ll bet you really enjoyed working on that.

A: It's one of the benefits of having done film for so long. When a rock band does a 5.1, most of the time I would think they’re not familiar with stereo. But I’ve been mixing film in 5.1 for years, so it comes as naturally to me as stereo. Once we did that, I would listen and say, ‘Maybe we should look at that song again. I want the reverb to come from the back or from above’ or wherever. I’m loving that.

Q: On Rio, you played instruments like guitar, bass, drums, keyboards and percussion. You also had a few people such as Colaiuta - known for his work with Sting, Joni Mitchell, and Frank Zappa - help out. Do you find that basically doing everything yourself makes it easier because you don't have to explain your vision to other musicians?

A: That's exactly right. I was with the [1970s South African pop/rock] band Rabbit in my earlier years and we had a great relationship. It was easy working with a band. But in the absence of a band, it’s very efficient and my focus is 1000 percent, so it really works for me.

Q: Your frequent collaborator Lou Molino III, who contributed to Can’t Look Away and 2012’s instrumental Jacaranda, plays drums on four tracks. Was getting him in your studio a no-brainer?

A: Absolutely. There's a shorthand with Lou. He's such an incredible drummer and instinctively knows if it's not what I want. He knows what the track needs…One of the benefits with Vinnie and with Lou is if you ever want to write it out, you can because they read [music]. So that’s really useful. In the chorus of ‘Push,’ I wrote the part out for Vinnie and it’s in a very weird time signature. I think it goes from 11/8 to 12/8 to 10/8 and then three bars that circle back. Usually, it would be a four bar or two bar. But he just did it and it was like he was eating breakfast. It was just so normal to him.

Q: Did any of the Rio songs take longer to complete than others due to their complexity?

A: I'm a stickler for this digital world we live in. It’s so easy to go in and tune things and fix things. I absolutely hate that and refuse to do that. I know how to do that with films when there are time constraints and issues. I do it like a racehorse. I'm very familiar with how to do it. But I absolutely refused to do it, even on my previous instrumental album. If something wasn't right, I’d just replay it. ‘Don’t be lazy,’ I will say. With that in mind, there’s a song on the album called ‘Tumbleweed,’ with an a cappella vocal in the beginning.

It's a very large cluster and has very jazzy extended chords. It’s jazz chords that the vocal sings. There’s a lot of them on there and it’s just me. That definitely took a while. There’s many vocals. I would do each note multiple times, stand in one spot for the first take of that note and then I did the same note standing eight feet back. If you look at the room, there's a circular choir singing it. I would do that and put sticks on the floor to know where to sing it. When I doubled one note, it’s kind of phasing and a little out of tune. I would just have to redo it. The whole process took a while.

Q: When I first heard the song, it reminded me of your past songs with layered vocals like “Leave It’ or something by Manhattan Transfer.

A: That’s great to hear. I love Manhattan Transfer!

Q: “Thandi” has a tribal animal sound.

A: Yeah. The noise that you hear on there is actually a rhinoceros. The lyrics are a protest against poaching. [Hunters] are getting rid of rhinos at such a fast rate. It’s really depressing to me.

Q: Among the album standouts is the upbeat “Egoli,” which would fit perfectly on a Disney children’s movie soundtrack. Were the chants inspired by South African music?

A: Absolutely. In fact, I wanted it to be a joyous sounding song, but with pretty depressing lyrics. It’s talking about how [Nelson] Mandela came in [to power in 1994] and [the future looked] so hopeful. I met him and he’s like a guru to me. The politics of South Africa are like a kleptocracy. It’s a really problematic place right now. Politics are so corrupt. ‘Egoli’ basically means ‘city of gold,’ which is Johannesburg. It’s essentially about Johannesburg.

Q: Another highlight on the album is the lush sounding ballad “These Tears.” Were 10cc or ABBA touchstones for you on the song?

A: I loved ABBA.

Q: Their 2021 comeback album Voyage had its moments.

A: Oh, my goodness, yeah. I remember [in the past when the UK’s now defunct] Sounds Magazine had written an article [about my 1977 debut album Beginnings] saying ‘The Healthy Face of Heavy Metal.’ I thought, ‘Heavy metal? Well, OK. I don't mind being on the front page.’ I accepted it. Soon after that, I was on Chrysalis Records and asking them, ‘Could you get hold of Bjorn from ABBA? I'd love him to produce me.’ We never went that far, but they made some unbelievable records.

Q: After each listen to Rio, I seem to hear little nuances that I hadn't heard before. Were you conscious of that while mixing and engineering it - making sure different sounds pop out here and there?

A: Absolutely. If people say to me, ‘I'd love to hear your album,’ I will always say, ‘Give it a couple of listens because you’ll hear something different each time.’ Not because I've pounded stuff on it, and it's overly produced – everything’s specifically set in a certain place to do a certain thing. I try and approach it like an orchestrator would with an orchestra. There are parts where it becomes hugely dense and there’s a reason for it. It’s not to chug away until your solo comes.

Q: Your guitar solos are impressive on the album. Did you use any first takes?

A: I try and improvise the solos as much as possible. Obviously, if an idea hits me and I want to pursue it, I’ll do it three or four times and then choose the best takes. Once in a while, I’ll cut between takes so that I come to one solo that's very satisfying. But for the most part, I just try and play them and hope for the best. I think solos are supposed to be spontaneous, so I try and keep that live as much as possible.

Q: Changing gears, what was the experience like getting back together with Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman for the Yes featuring ARW tours in the 2010s?

A: One of the sad things was people saying, ‘Why did they break up?’ It wasn’t really a breakup. Yes got into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2017. Then Jon and I and Rick said, ‘Let’s do some shows.’ It just happens that five or six shows turned into a 200-date tour.

And we loved it. We had such an amazing time and frankly, after doing the [early ‘90s] ‘Union’ tour with Rick, we became very close. I played on one of his albums. I’d done a guitar solo and sang on a song. We had both said one of our bucket list [items] was, ‘we've got to do this again.’

But this time not with the eight-piece [Yes lineup], just an ensemble of us playing together. Playing with Rick was - besides being great and fun musically – he’s absolutely funny as can be.

Q: Did you find the touring with Yes feat. ARW helped keep your vocals chops strong so when you made this album you were raring to go?

A: That’s exactly what happened. In fact, I don't know if I could have done this album without those years with ARW because it was quite taxing on my voice.

Working on those songs, there’s some very high vocals and it became very natural. I think the muscle or whatever it is in your voice box actually got stronger than it’s ever been. When I listened back to my vocals on this album compared to stuff in the past, I thought, ‘Wow, I prefer it now more than I did then.’ I'm pretty satisfied with that.

Q: Since it has been 40 years since 90125 came out, I wondered, when that success happened, did it feel like the recognition was overdue because you’d already been releasing albums since 1975 by that point?

A: All the stuff that happens to me, I just see as a bridge to another place. It’s never too contrived, because if I plan it all, it’s never going to land up where you think it is. I just let it flow.

When Rabbit happened, we were such a great unit, especially the three of us on bass, drums, and guitar. We had so much enjoyment from it. And then the band blew up and became the biggest band in South Africa. All of us just thought, ‘This is cool.’ Then it ended and was like, ‘What are we going to do next?’

I’ve always lived like that and never been too disappointed when things end. I haven’t been too euphoric when things work [either], but I was very surprised when ‘90125’ did so well. I wasn't expecting that.

When I first heard it on the radio, I was lying outside. I was staying in Canoga Park in LA in a small house with a little pool and the doors were open. I had this huge hi-fi system with massive speakers. It was absolute rubbish – a ‘buy it off the back of a truck’-type thing. The speakers seem like they’re made out of balsa wood. They don't weigh anything. They look fantastic, but they sound horrible.

So, I'm listening to it outside and ‘Owner of a Lonely Heart’ came on. I thought, ‘Oh boy, this doesn’t sound too good.’ I heard it in the car a couple of days later and thought it didn’t sound too bad. Then I couldn't turn on the radio without it being on.

Q: Right around the time Cinema morphed into Yes, you said something about how you were wary of working with producer Trevor Horn. Was that because the Buggles were considered a pop novelty and the previous Yes lineup with Horn wasn't very successful?

A: Very much so. I didn’t know Trevor, but he’d produced a very successful duo called Dollar in England. It was real bubblegum music. I thought that had nothing to do with me. Not to say it was bad. Producers do different things, but the bottom line is once we finished working together on ‘90125,’ Trevor would always call me and book me for albums he was [producing] - Tina Turner, Seal. Everything turned out OK.

There were moments of frustration in making ‘90125.’ I certainly didn’t want to call the band Yes. I thought that was a bad idea, but ultimately Jon joined us and redid, probably 80 percent of the vocals. Chris [Squire] said to me, ‘Do you mind being fired as 80 percent of the singer?’ I said, ‘the way Jon sounds, I’m only too happy’ to.

Q: Can’t Look Away was your most successful solo effort, with “Something to Hold On To” reaching the Top 5 at AOR radio. How would you rate it among your other solo albums?

A: Up until this one, it was a good progression. [1981’s] ‘Wolf’ was decent, and I had some great musicians on that like Jack Bruce...it was such a great learning experience working with Simon Phillips and Jack and Manfred Mann, who I’d produced [before]. Ray Davies co-produced it. I thought that went pretty well. Then when ‘Can’t Look Away’ happened, working with Bob Ezrin was really enjoyable. Once I got into this album, I was very clear about what I wanted to do. 

Q: What’s next for you? Any tour plans?

A: Actually, I was talking to Lou about it. There’s so many offers and the producer of the ARW tour has been talking to me about doing shows and integrating some film scores with it. Doing some orchestra, I conduct a bit and then do the album and some Yes stuff.

Q: Danny Elfman did a similar format at the Coachella Festival, and it gelled nicely.

A: That’s definitely in the works, or it’s certainly something we’re talking about.

Photo courtesy of Chipster PR.

This interview originally appeared at rockcellarmagazine.com.